Louis Mosley @louis ?

active 16 hours, 46 minutes ago


  • Guy Jarvis posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   2 days, 4 hours ago · View

    Peter, agreed it is not just technically re ADSL lines - the real problem with all DSL technology is the basic inequity of copper line attenuation that disadvantages rural communities and this is why FttC is a digital deadend.

    The terms ”digital timeshare” and ”exaflood” are neither designed nor intended to confuse you nor for that matter to impress either - rather to inform and raise awareness.

    The former is a parallel between the digital world and a practice well-known to the general public that aptly describes how broadband is diced and sliced today and the latter is a term coined back in January 2007 that serves to highlight the flood of data that future proof Digital Services access networks must contend (sic) with.

    Hope this helps,


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  • Peter posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   3 days, 7 hours ago · View

    Guy, it’s not just ’technically’ that contention occurs before the local loop, there is no contention on an ADSL line.

    Congratulations on using 2 more terms designed to impress and confuse - ’digital timeshare’ and ’exaflood’. I think you mean the internet is shared by users and still needs bandwidth and capacity at the far end by the likes of eg. BBC and Google.

    It’s worth contacting Samknows for explanations and any errors.

    Maps where people post their own speeds are open to errors, I have seen some where properties close to an exchange show they get a very low speed. If I knew who they were I would go and find out why! Did a x5 increase for someone by moving the router and replacing extension wiring with Ethernet. Also a new PC can run a lot faster!

  • Peter joined the group AvatarMapping   3 days, 7 hours ago · View

  • chris conder posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   4 days, 6 hours ago · View

    I don’t think we need to go into rhapsodies over this, we just need to either correct the maps or sack them off and JFDI ourselves? ie get some real rural networks up and running one way or another. If the politicians can get some pipes to us we can do the rest. We don’t seem to be able to do both.

  • Guy Jarvis posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   4 days, 21 hours ago · View

    Phil, contended lines is not a myth that is emerging, it’s already well established.

    Technically you are correct that contention as experienced with mass-market broadband in the UK today is a product of digital timeshare occurring beyond the local loop.

    I did raise this with SpencerK and his explanation was convincing, to paraphrase:

    People are familiar with their phone lines and insofaras most folks think/care/understand about the reasons behind the limitations of the digital services they receive today, the phone line is were broadband comes from.

    This is no different from asking the basic question of any connectivity, e.g.

    FTTH in one direction, so where is the other end.

    People aren’t actually interested in the differences between local loop, middle miles, internet peering - its the fitness of purpose of service that matters.

    Incidentally, why FTTH is important is to permanently put to rest concerns about the basic network infrastructure being able to delivers digital services fit for purpose.

    Once that is achieved then we can all get on with using the tech without having to have these conversations - network building is an inconvenient necessity after all :)

    I would contend (sic) that whilst it is technically true that everyone can have FTTH today, if prepared to pay BT’s fascinating rates of Excess Construction Charges, the factor of affordability is equally important.

    FTTH as part of the pureglass path (www.pureglass.eu e.g.) provides the technical means to open the taps on the exaflood and thereby removes the technical copper figleaf used today to jjustify commercial considerations allowing digital gatekeepers to restrict those taps to a drip of data - this is an incumbent supply-side problem.

    As regards samknows and ofcom, it always help to understand commercial relationships when assessing the merits of any information provider.

    • Avatar Image
      Phil Thompson · 4 days, 17 hours ago

      It is an emerging myth that the *lines* are contended, but well established that the services are contended. ADSL lines are decidedly not contended, whereas cable and wi-fi is contended in the first metres/mile due to users sharing spectrum in a common media.

      You can buy uncontended ADSL, but few do - demand failure.

      So let’s stick to factual accuracy rather than dumbing down, otherwise you end up with people that don’t understand claiming that ”they share their line with 50 other users” and other crass nonsense.

  • Guy Jarvis posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   5 days, 9 hours ago · View

    William, you are right on target re the need to actually capture data consistently.

    The other factor to consider is the time of day each test is done as contended lines mean that the worst performance will be seen when the kids come home from school til bedtime.

    Also worth noting that samknows are in bed with ofcom http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ofcom_and_samknows

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      Phil Thompson · 4 days, 23 hours ago

      Seems we have an emerging myth of ”contended lines”. The lines are not contended, but the service usually is. Fibre services are also contended, aren’t they - like say 80 1G fibre connections to a 100M internet connection. Contention is everywhere, it makes stuff affordable and practical.

      Speed tests are of little value if we’re talking about infrastructure, if people buy cheap as chips ADSL they’re going to be highly contended. If they buy priority services at higher prices they’ll be a lot less contended. You can buy an uncontended service too, at a price. This is an area with market failure on the demand side.

      Samknows do work for OFCOM, what are you suggesting with the ”in bed with” comment ? The data feeds on their site are pulled from BT and other supplier databases, they don’t invent the numbers.

  • William Bundred posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   5 days, 13 hours ago · View

    Don’t know about the rest of the county, but the Carlisle Parish Councils Assoiciation ran a survey, asking people for their speeds all using the same checker. I haven’t the data myself just a map, but I might know a man who knows where the data is kept.

  • chris conder posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   5 days, 16 hours ago · View

    and when you click on the link it lists providers offering you up to 20 meg. same on think broadband site. Yup, we’ve got adsl, but it is often 0.3 download. Neighbours had it too, for about 2 months out of the 12, the rest it was broken. Yes our neighbours and us are on our fibre/wifi network now, but does that mean I can’t comment on this blog? I am trying to get the correct facts on the maps. I think you can help Phil, because you are good at facts. Just putting a number into a checker isn’t getting the facts, because the wrong data is in there to start with. We need real people checking these maps.

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      Phil Thompson · 4 days, 23 hours ago

      If you’re neighbours and you are on fibre and wifi you can’t really post that they are on dialup, as it isn’t true. I think this would be regarded as misleading ?

      Have you actually got ADSL ?

      You would have to go back to the source of the map to query the basis on which it was produced, or indeed what it is intending to show. Samknows and ISP sites are more reliable indicators of current availability.

      I’m not motivated to help improve maps, notspot surveys have been done and data collected ad nauseam. If there isn’t a policy in place to address every case then there’s no point in creating the inputs to such a policy.

      One thing that would be easy to map is the availability of satellite broadband for under £50/month at 1,2 and 4Mbits/s. Anyone on dialup needs to be made aware of the satellite alternative, if they’re serious dialup users it could even be cheaper !

  • chris conder posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   5 days, 17 hours ago · View

    Just checked my phone number and postcode on the samknows checker. It says adsl2max is available in my area. That is totally inaccurate, our exchange is adsl which means ’up to 8meg’ and we can’t get a meg despite engineer visits and my neighbours are on dial up. So all the maps are inaccurate, possibly because they use data from BT. Are they still using the old marconi database that conned the last government into believing we all had access to broadband?

    • Avatar Image
      Phil Thompson · 5 days, 17 hours ago

      funny that when I put your number and postcode into Samknows it says :

      The following services are available in your location:

      BT Wholesale ADSL
      BT Wholesale ADSL Max

      (cut & paste)

      You are aware that ADSLMax is the up to 8M variable rate service, and the ADSL refers to the fixed speed services ? Perhaps the 2 that you imagined put you off the scent - should have gone to specsavers :-)

      Here’s what the other BT options look like, for future reference :-

      BT Wholesale WBC (21CN) <- ADSL2+ variable rate
      BT FTTC <- VDSL2+ variable rate

      and did you ever try to get ADSL ? and aren't your neighbours on wireless or fibre ?

  • chris conder posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   5 days, 17 hours ago · View

    there’s one on thinkbroadband.com and plenty of others, but it relies on people finding those sites and submitting data. We have a map - we just need to get the data on it accurate, as it isn’t at the moment. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of activity on this site at the moment. maybe a mention in a newsletter to everyone might get things going? cmon louis. If we all checked our own area and corrected the map it could be done in a day.

  • chris conder posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   5 days, 18 hours ago · View

    I think its a joke too, but unless we get everyone to prove its wrong the policy makers will fall for it. If we are to have a map it has to be correct. Thanks William.

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      William Bundred · 5 days, 18 hours ago

      I’ve seen a speed checkers site that gives broadband speeds that people have submitted.
      I’ll have to dig for it, but I could find it if anyone is interested. I know it gave some speeds in my area.

  • William Bundred posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   5 days, 19 hours ago · View

    I suspect it is a joke.
    Someone just drew circles from cabinets & exchanges.
    In Longtown is says 20mbps at the Community centre in the middle of Longtown the speed is less than 2mbps

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      Phil Thompson · 5 days, 17 hours ago

      Longtown has its own exchange and only has up to 8M ADSL max available, so the 20M is wrong.

      Town centre properties should all connect with a modem sync of 7616 or 8128 so if the community centre is on 2M maybe they need to look at the package or fix the thing that’s broke. It would be a joke to say that only 2M is available in Longtown.

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  • chris conder posted an update in the group AvatarMapping:   6 days, 6 hours ago · View

    Not seen much activity here lately. One little job the champions could do is check out the map here: http://data.broadbandcumbria.com/maps/map-current-cumbria-broadband-speeds-bt-infrastructure/ and go over their own area of it to check for accuracy. I think it is grossly over estimating the speeds myself but would love to hear what others think. Just zoom in on your area and click and it will tell you. Post what you find here? ta.

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      Phil Thompson · 5 days, 17 hours ago

      The map makes assumptions about current services that aren’t correct, so it is flawed. It says ADSL2+ speeds are currently available on exchanges that have no ADSL2+ equipment.

      If it’s trying to show potential then it’s fair enough as it wouldn’t cost a whole lot to make ADSL exchanges do ADSL2+, but it is misleading about what you can buy now.

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